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	<title>Comments on: Free Enterprise-Class Virtualization</title>
	<atom:link href="http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/</link>
	<description>kinda like batman, but with a wife and 3 kids</description>
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		<title>By: meda</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-60734</link>
		<dc:creator>meda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-60734</guid>
		<description>thx all for the discusion :) i was searching for the stuff about virtualisation and founded this...

you clarified a bunch of thing for me and that just awesome :)

cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thx all for the discusion <img src='http://movingparts.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  i was searching for the stuff about virtualisation and founded this&#8230;</p>
<p>you clarified a bunch of thing for me and that just awesome <img src='http://movingparts.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46828</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46828</guid>
		<description>@Tom: Huh. Cool! =:) And sorry, but SELinux gives me gas, no matter how good it may be technically. =:P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tom: Huh. Cool! =:) And sorry, but SELinux gives me gas, no matter how good it may be technically. =:P</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46826</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46826</guid>
		<description>http://dev.osso.nl/herman/blog/2008/08/06/virtualization-xen-and-kvm/
Another happy (soon to be) KVM user. 

With KVM you nearly get all cool linux features like powersaving for example ( Green-IT ... buzzword bingo :) ).
It is nice to see that easy, clean, fast, well supported solutions can win ( sometimes .. SELinux seems to be winning too :P ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.osso.nl/herman/blog/2008/08/06/virtualization-xen-and-kvm/" rel="nofollow">http://dev.osso.nl/herman/blog/2008/08/06/virtualization-xen-and-kvm/</a><br />
Another happy (soon to be) KVM user. </p>
<p>With KVM you nearly get all cool linux features like powersaving for example ( Green-IT &#8230; buzzword bingo <img src='http://movingparts.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).<br />
It is nice to see that easy, clean, fast, well supported solutions can win ( sometimes .. SELinux seems to be winning too <img src='http://movingparts.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  ).</p>
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		<title>By: Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46823</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46823</guid>
		<description>@Kyle Cunningham:
The benchmarking restrictions in VMware&#039;s EULA are not unique. Oracle has the same guidelines as does Microsoft, Symantec, Virtual Iron (for a while), and several other companies. The reason is simple - benchmarking is hard to do correctly and very easy to screw up or skew the results. All that VMware is trying to do is make sure the tests were done correctly and have valid results. If VMware doesn&#039;t win the benchmark it doesn&#039;t matter as long as the test was run correctly.

It&#039;s certainly simpler to stand back, think that all companies that are in business to make money are evil, and play the &quot;I might as well not even try&quot; card. But until you actually do what you&#039;re talking about and produce the same results that you&#039;re prognosticating, you&#039;re just generating FUD. I understand your pessimism, and I have certainly seen my fair share of corporate stupidity, but I have not yet seen anyone actually do a thorough performance test according to VMware&#039;s guidelines, publish them, and then get told to take them down because the results weren&#039;t favorable for VMware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kyle Cunningham:<br />
The benchmarking restrictions in VMware&#8217;s EULA are not unique. Oracle has the same guidelines as does Microsoft, Symantec, Virtual Iron (for a while), and several other companies. The reason is simple &#8211; benchmarking is hard to do correctly and very easy to screw up or skew the results. All that VMware is trying to do is make sure the tests were done correctly and have valid results. If VMware doesn&#8217;t win the benchmark it doesn&#8217;t matter as long as the test was run correctly.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly simpler to stand back, think that all companies that are in business to make money are evil, and play the &#8220;I might as well not even try&#8221; card. But until you actually do what you&#8217;re talking about and produce the same results that you&#8217;re prognosticating, you&#8217;re just generating FUD. I understand your pessimism, and I have certainly seen my fair share of corporate stupidity, but I have not yet seen anyone actually do a thorough performance test according to VMware&#8217;s guidelines, publish them, and then get told to take them down because the results weren&#8217;t favorable for VMware.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46818</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46818</guid>
		<description>From the benchmarking PDF you mentioned:

VMware reserves the right to refuse publication of any benchmark


So ya, I can publish benchmarks, if VMWare is OK with it.  Which can mean practically anything.  If the benchmarks are unfavorable towards ESX VMWare could simply claim the the methodology isn&#039;t good and therefore the results won&#039;t be published, or just give no reason at all.  

So internal testing could be done, but going beyond that to verify methodology (outside of VMWare verifying methodology) simply can&#039;t be done unless the results happen to be favorable for VMWare.  And thinking that VMWare will knowingly allow publication of results that make it look worse than the competition would be very naive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the benchmarking PDF you mentioned:</p>
<p>VMware reserves the right to refuse publication of any benchmark</p>
<p>So ya, I can publish benchmarks, if VMWare is OK with it.  Which can mean practically anything.  If the benchmarks are unfavorable towards ESX VMWare could simply claim the the methodology isn&#8217;t good and therefore the results won&#8217;t be published, or just give no reason at all.  </p>
<p>So internal testing could be done, but going beyond that to verify methodology (outside of VMWare verifying methodology) simply can&#8217;t be done unless the results happen to be favorable for VMWare.  And thinking that VMWare will knowingly allow publication of results that make it look worse than the competition would be very naive.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46817</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46817</guid>
		<description>Hey @Tom! Yeah, I think you&#039;re totally right. Virtualization should be ubiquitous and everywhere and freely available, etc. But a great deal of value lies in the configuration and management software around the hypervisor. VMware has a HUGE set of software for this, but I don&#039;t know what pieces of it I&#039;d use as a home/hobbyist person. I guess I&#039;ll have to play around with the various pieces to see what works/fits best. =:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey @Tom! Yeah, I think you&#8217;re totally right. Virtualization should be ubiquitous and everywhere and freely available, etc. But a great deal of value lies in the configuration and management software around the hypervisor. VMware has a HUGE set of software for this, but I don&#8217;t know what pieces of it I&#8217;d use as a home/hobbyist person. I guess I&#8217;ll have to play around with the various pieces to see what works/fits best. =:)</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46816</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46816</guid>
		<description>Cool, thank you very much.

I looked at ESX a bit more closely and I think the main value lies in the software ecosystem around it. It is like Red Hats virtmanager and then some .. but RHEL 6 isn`t that far down the road so I am not really interested in trying a closed source solution with an uncertain future ( tbh I feel the same about Xen .. KVM is so much better NOW, it just needs more support tools ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool, thank you very much.</p>
<p>I looked at ESX a bit more closely and I think the main value lies in the software ecosystem around it. It is like Red Hats virtmanager and then some .. but RHEL 6 isn`t that far down the road so I am not really interested in trying a closed source solution with an uncertain future ( tbh I feel the same about Xen .. KVM is so much better NOW, it just needs more support tools ).</p>
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		<title>By: Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46814</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46814</guid>
		<description>@Tom: I haven&#039;t censored comments yet and I certainly didn&#039;t censor yours. Wonder if the spam filter caught it... Yep. -19.88 on the Spam Karma. I rescued it for ya. Thanks for letting me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tom: I haven&#8217;t censored comments yet and I certainly didn&#8217;t censor yours. Wonder if the spam filter caught it&#8230; Yep. -19.88 on the Spam Karma. I rescued it for ya. Thanks for letting me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46813</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46813</guid>
		<description>thanks for censoring my previous comment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for censoring my previous comment</p>
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		<title>By: Segedunum</title>
		<link>http://movingparts.net/2008/08/05/free-enterprise-class-virtualization/comment-page-1/#comment-46812</link>
		<dc:creator>Segedunum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://movingparts.net/?p=374#comment-46812</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll clarify the above comment by saying that I&#039;m not dissing VMware. They&#039;re going in the direction they want, and they currently have a (pretty successful) business model around what they&#039;re doing and that&#039;s their prerogative.

Despite my misgivings about the future of virtualisation and where it&#039;s heading with regards to software like VMware and the whole &#039;the hypervisor is the OS&#039; stuff, which I think is nonsense really, being able to pick up ESXi and then move easily to ESX when they&#039;ve tested the water will enable VMware to pick up a lot of customers. I might still be one of them. In terms of well tested &#039;enterprise class&#039; (hate that phrase) stuff then VMware and ESX is still the best around there is at the moment. KVM has matured spectacularly in a short space of time, and I do think they have the right approach with hardware virtualisation happening at the right time (leaving I/O virtualisation), but it really depends on what management tools emerge around it. I&#039;m not enamoured with Red Hat&#039;s. It will be some time yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll clarify the above comment by saying that I&#8217;m not dissing VMware. They&#8217;re going in the direction they want, and they currently have a (pretty successful) business model around what they&#8217;re doing and that&#8217;s their prerogative.</p>
<p>Despite my misgivings about the future of virtualisation and where it&#8217;s heading with regards to software like VMware and the whole &#8216;the hypervisor is the OS&#8217; stuff, which I think is nonsense really, being able to pick up ESXi and then move easily to ESX when they&#8217;ve tested the water will enable VMware to pick up a lot of customers. I might still be one of them. In terms of well tested &#8216;enterprise class&#8217; (hate that phrase) stuff then VMware and ESX is still the best around there is at the moment. KVM has matured spectacularly in a short space of time, and I do think they have the right approach with hardware virtualisation happening at the right time (leaving I/O virtualisation), but it really depends on what management tools emerge around it. I&#8217;m not enamoured with Red Hat&#8217;s. It will be some time yet.</p>
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